240Z Collector Value

[rdefabri]

I'm with Zedyone. My 280 fits my comfort level. It's not perfect, and it's a joy to drive. Wrecking it wouldn't be a tremendous tragedy (but it would certainly hurt!). I sold two relatively perfect cars I was afraid to drive, banked most of the money, and used some of it to buy my Z. I'm pleased with that decision. If my Z ever becomes precious, then I might become afraid to drive it. Then I suppose I would have to sell it (not complaining about the profit, of course) and be content to drive the '94 Miata -- still missing my baby.

There's nothing like a cheap-ish classic sportscar!

I'm actually looking for a 280 myself. I already own a classic - 1966 Jaguar E-Type - which I drive all the time. I never think about the value of it, just whether or not I enjoy it.

I had a '76 280Z and a '72 240Z which I sold about a year or so ago, and I miss it. In a few, I'll look to jump back in with a '77 or '78 280.

[FastWoman]

'66 Jag E-type -- Nice!

[Arne]

Oddly enough, in 20+ years of playing with older or semi-collectible cars, my 240Z is the first one that I might actually break out of my normal cost/year on, if I were to sell it. Previous play cars (of those I owned longer than say, 2 years) have historically cost me right at $1k per year of ownership, outside of normal maintenance. Example - I was into the '67 MGB I bought and restored from '89-95 for $15k. Sold it for $9k, and thought I did good. After all, I got a fair amount of enjoyment for $1k per year. The E21 323i sold for $5k ($10 invested) after 5 years. You can see the trend.

Thanks in part to the increase in 240Z values over the past 4+ years, and also to the fact that I bought it right, I could actually do much better than that if I sold it now.

[mgmoreau]

May the youngest among us live that long........

Part of the issue with Zs is that there are still too many of them around. Buyers have many good cars to choose from when Z shopping and that tends to keep prices down.

Enjoy the ride and don't consider the Z as part of your retirement portfolio.

Dennis

I agree with Dennis in that there were too many early Z's sold by Datsun.

If any of you watch Chasing Classic Cars on the Discovery HD channel, you know the star of the show, Wayne Carinni. He is a player in the high end collector car market and deals with many cars that fetch 7 figures at all the high end auctions. His shop is located in Portland CT which is 90 minutes from my house. I drove my 72 240Z to one of his monthly cars and coffee meet in October.

I had a chance to talk to him about the value of the Z's and their long term investment potential. He basically said the same thing that Dennis said, "the problem with these Z cars is that they made too many of them". Because of that he does not see the early Z cars taking off in value like many other high end collector cars. I even asked him if he felt the low vin# 69 Z's would appreciate in value. He said he did not think they would because of the numbers originally made.

He said the cars that command the highest prices are those that were built in very low numbers with few survivors left. He did make the comment that there are not to many 240Z's left in the condition that my car was in. That statement alone made me feel pretty good even if I can't convince my wife that buying more Z cars would be good investment.

Here is a link to Wayne Carinni's site: http://www.f40.com/

Great discussion thought.:classic:

Edited February 11, 2011 by mgmoreau

[Carl Beck]

Hi Marc:

IMHO - Mr. Carinni has his head in the clouds. He's up there with "Life Styles Of The Rich and Famous" He is not alone, I see the same lack of clear and logical thinking everywhere this subject is discussed.

Lets look at it this way:

When I moved here to Clearwater, Florida in 1973, homes on Clearwater Beach sold for around $125K. Beach front property has always been very limited and prices relatively high. Today these homes sell for $2M to $5M. Yes, I should have bought a home on the beach.... Problem was I didn't have the money.

My first house in Clearwater cost me $17K. I put about $10K into remodeling and adding a 3 car garage. Sold it 8 years later for $45K.

= = = =

Now tell me Mr. Carinni: what do you think of the long term investment potential of a house in Clearwater.

Mr. Carinni answers: The problem with houses in Clearwater is that there are too many of them. They will never take off like homes on Clearwater Beach.

What about homes on Nottingham Drive, I ask.

Mr. Carinni answers; I don't think they would be any better because too many were originally built.

Ah.... 8 homes is too many I wonder? as I walk away......

= = = = =

You see what I'm getting at here Marc? Why would anyone put any creditability in thinking that leads to answers like his? People that compare limited production and/or hand built exotic automobiles to mass production automobiles - - - are comparing apples to oranges. The result of that comparison are meaningless. Worse they represent bad advice, if they prevent you from buying anything else.

"240Z's will never be worth anything." - Really? Is that why people are coming from Europe to buy them? Is that why very knowledgeable Collectors are buying up the best examples available?

Let's look at it this way - say one can afford a Classic Car to drive and enjoy that costs up to $18K today. For $18K what Classic Car would you buy?

Let's say you want a Classic Car that you can participate with in Classic Car Shows - and you can afford to spend $35K - - what Classic Car would you buy?

FWIW,

Carl B.

[lonetreesteve]

The prices are controlled by supply and demand. Not by what we ask for our cars.

There are a numbers of contributing factors in this discussion and supply and demand are certainly a big part of it. Carl's analogy of beach houses made me think of something- I was once told a good number of years ago that if a house (or a car for that matter) sells too quickly, it's probably because the asking price was too low. Believe me, I have seen some very nice 240Zs over the years that have sold way under market either on Ebay as a buy-it-now or on Craigslist. Trust me, this uninformed behavior affects 240Z values, just as it does with houses.

[26th-Z]

Oh, I just gotta jump in! We're missing some collector car true-isms.

Collector cars for investment purposes generally return the same rate as fine art, gold coins, antiques. Over time, the price will fluctuate but in the long run the investment should increase.

Collector cars are not about supply and demand. The demand is low - comparitively. Although the supply argument is relatively legit, plenty of high volume production automobiles are highly sought and valuable. Carl makes a good point about comparing production cars to limited build cars - you just can't. Different game.

Collector cars don't have to be stock. Modified cars can be much more valuable in certain circumstances. Perfect example is ZRush.

And finally, something Brock Yates once wrote about the subject. That generally speaking, if the car was high priced and valuable originally, it probably is now.

[az240z]

Although the supply argument is relatively legit, plenty of high volume production automobiles are highly sought and valuable.

Just look at the large amount of corvettes and 55 to 57 chevys that are being sold at the various auctions. Oh and then they take the 289 out and put in a 407 and the car is now worth more. HMMMMMMMM. I went to barret jackson this year, if they were to take out the chevy line they would have had only 400 or so cars to sell. They aren't rare but they only made 3000 of them in Virgin Red in 1963.

[IdahoKidd]

That generally speaking, if the car was high priced and valuable originally, it probably is now.

I have a 1985 Mercedes 500SEC that was the most expensive passenger car available in 1985 at $54,000. (It doesn't even have a cup holder nor a tilt steering wheel). That car is worth about $5000. I have a buddy with a 3 year old Range Rover, original price of mid $60's, can't sell it for $8K.

[Montezuma]

I saw Carinni pick up a 57 VW beatle in LA for like $16K and drive it up to Pebble Beach and sell it at Christy's Auction for $25K or whatever his price was. A beatle? Nothing sold cheaper or more of than beatles, so I don't think Wayne is totally correct on this issue. As many east coasters do; they favor German cars to Japanese cars anyway. Wayne is looking out his east coast basis. I think if a qaulity car shows up at auction it will sell for more than $25K. Men grew up admiring and love this car and I think those that can afford it would pay a good price to own a condition 1 or 2 example. That's it, I said my piece.....we are the ones that are responsible for getting the word out and talking up the value of our cars not trying to find reasons to deflate the values. Last words: I am talking about condition 1or 2 cars or a fine resto-mod, not some of the junk I see at Cars and Coffee or Motorsport.