Lets talk rusty frames...

[77Datz]

Was able to get a better look underneath my 77 280z today, I wasn't sure of how much frame rot there was when i bought it a few weeks ago. I'm not happy.

The rear of the car is in better shape than the front, my sway bar bushing is basically hanging from the frame where it rotted away, there's a few holes here and there and rust just falls off the car when you touch any part of the rusted areas. The floor boards are in great shape, no rust there, but the two rails that run along the floor boards are rusty, at the front end they both have holes and rot. The underside of the car looks like it was coated in a thick, black paint. If it's rust preventing paint, it hasn't really held up after all these years. I have no experience with welding, or any kind of frame or suspension work whatsoever, but I'd like to do whatever I can myself and learn how to do it. I've seen the D.I.Y patch jobs, but I don't have a garage, or a car lift, which seems to be a necessity with work like this. I'd take it to a body shop but don't feel like dropping thousands to get the frame repaired. I know that this sort of rusting is typical on z cars, and I'm on Long Island, where sea salt and humidity are always a factor no matter what time of year. I'm sure it's drivable in its current condition, I just want to take care of this rusting issue before it get's any worse. What are my options? How did you fix your swiss-cheese frames?

[z boy mn]

Hey 77, sorry to hear about your discovery. I looked for two years at Zs filled with rust before I ended up with mine, which is pretty solid.

From what I understand, this kind of rust is necessary to repair if you're going to drive the car and I doubt it's going to be inexpensive. And, I think it's also worth having the car checked if the rails are that badly rotted. After all, they're pretty important in holding the front end together...and while the car may be ok sitting still, I'm not sure about cornering or worse, an accident. I've seen cars, for example, where the front end just collapsed under the weight of the engine...and if you're going down the road and that happens, it would be very bad.

Also, there's really no "frame" per se on these cars, they're a unibody construction (think of an egg shell with wheels attached)....so, I'd get it checked. At the same time, I know that the rails are replaceable if you have the time and energy.

Finally, this group is super knowledgeable and may be able to offer some more advice if you post photos of the car--especially the front end.

Edited May 6, 2013 by z boy mn

[Carl Beck]

No welding experiences nor equipment

No garage and no lift

Won't and shouldn't spend thousands of dollars

From what you have written - your option is to sell the car to someone that can and will fix it themselves. Rust is always far worse than you think at first..it gets worse as you uncover it... Cut your losses and dump the car. Don't put more money for anything else - into a rust bucket you can't fix.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[madkaw]

Carl is right as usual. Unless you have strong sentimental value to the car you might be better moving on.

IF you even considered trying to fix, you would need to get under the car and start scrapping to see really how bad it is. There is ALWAYS rust beyond what you see. It is rare to see frame rot without the connecting floor rot. Now your in for a couple grand for floors with labor. Doesn't sound like your tools and experience are up to the task.

Search floor replacement on here and look at my thread to see what's involved.

[cbuczesk]

FYI...It takes 40 hours start to finish to replace the floors and frames. Post some pictures so we can see how bad it looks.

Chuck

[bartsscooterservice]

No welding experiences nor equipment

No garage and no lift

Won't and shouldn't spend thousands of dollars

From what you have written - your option is to sell the car to someone that can and will fix it themselves. Rust is always far worse than you think at first..it gets worse as you uncover it... Cut your losses and dump the car. Don't put more money for anything else - into a rust bucket you can't fix.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Exactly !

[mjr45]

Yep agree with Carl, I know from experience what its like to try welding lying on your back with the car only 18" above you, doable but not fun.

[pakmule87]

One thing I don't look forward to having done to mine when it gets to that point. I got lucky with my 280z even with it having been bought for my dad when it was new. I have rust and dirt inside the frame rail (and slightly bent and lucky as hell that it didn't get messed up far enough to have caused rust) that I spent a day having fun with a blow gun for about half an hour trying to get a chunk of it out. Btw, any tips for trying to get something on the inside of the rails to help delay the inevitable?

[Mikes Z car]

pakmule87,

Here are a couple of threads on that though there may be others:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/body-paint-s30/48591-spraying-all-hollow-parts-against-rust.html

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/body-paint-s30/40048-two-frame-rails-tc-rod-there-floor-between-them.html

[FastWoman]

Btw, any tips for trying to get something on the inside of the rails to help delay the inevitable?

You can still buy a product called Cosmoline. Maybe you can find a way to introduce some into the rails. I have no personal experience with the stuff, but I ordered a gallon tonight (about $125) for another project, and I'll occasionally find opportunities to apply the stuff in vulnerable areas of my Z (e.g. inside doors). I'm very excited about the stuff.

[e-tek]

You can still buy a product called Cosmoline. Maybe you can find a way to introduce some into the rails. I have no personal experience with the stuff, but I ordered a gallon tonight (about $125) for another project, and I'll occasionally find opportunities to apply the stuff in vulnerable areas of my Z (e.g. inside doors). I'm very excited about the stuff.

Cosmoline and many other rust preparations can help prevent or slow rust and is a good idea , especially if you can reapply it every year or two. Eastwood has a product that comes with a long tube sprayer that you can insert 2-3 feet into a frame rail or rocker panel.

For the OP, not having experience or equipment shouldn't stop you, but if you don't have the will then I'd agree that your best to dump it!

[Patcon]

I don't want to discourage you from trying. There are people out there and some even in this forum that have taken on projects with this much rust and succeeded, but you have to be as stubborn as a pit bull. I have several 240z's all in different stages of repair. Even the "rust free" cars have some rust. The car I bought out of Arizona had rust on the inside surfaces of the rear quarters and little holes in the lower rear wheel archs. I have come to the point that when I look at a car for all the rust I can find I figure there is twice that or more. The front frame rails are one of the harder repairs to do right (ie replacement). You have to get the dimensions correct on reassembly, remove the drive train, deal with the tie rod boxes, etc. You would probably be money and years ahead to find a better car. Even a shell that you could swap all of your car over too. I have owned 240's for over 27 years straight but haven't had a driver for almost 20 years. It is surprising how long it takes to get one of thsee cars restored that need this much work and the other things in life seam to always get in the way and double the amount of time it takes.

Charles