realistic budget for common Z repairs

[AMelbye]

Hi,

I'm currently looking to buy a 240z, in the $5.000 to $10.000 price range. This often means dealing with some repairs, and I'm wondering how much time and money (in parts) it will take to do common repairs to these cars.

Consider that I'm not a professional mechanic, but a fast learner. The only related experience I have is rebuilding the engine and suspension on my motor cycle when I was 16. (14 years ago)

I'm just listing the first repairs that comes to mind. How much time and money would it take to repair/rebuild the following?:

front suspension

steering

rear suspension

seats

engine

gear box

clutch

differential

brakes

brake lines

fuel delivery

rubber seals around doors/windows/rear hatch

common rust repairs?

Hopefully this will make it easier to judge which cars I should consider buying, and which issues I should avoid dealing with. Thanks in advance!

Edited September 9, 2014 by AMelbye

[jfa.series1]

Here's a document I posted a while back - a complete rundown of all expenses incurred in my resto effort. It doesn't cover all your questions but a lot of them. My car was not bent or broken, and it had no rust issues. Hope this gives you some insight.

As to time required, I have 2 1/2 years in my project (I'm retired) but there was 9 months of downtime while the car was at the paint shop followed by another 6 month stay for some paint corrections. The paint shop time was long because it was a collision shop and very busy with fast turnaround jobs while the owner had my car as his personal project.

Z Restoration Report.pdf

[FastWoman]

Welcome!

I don't have specific answers to your questions, in terms of time and money. Among other things, I don't know how good a Z you can buy in Norway in your price range, and I don't know much about parts availability there. However, I can say my experience here in the Eastern US is that my Z costs no more to maintain than more modern cars I've owned, and in many cases it's cheaper. Of the cars I've owned in the past decade, I would rank them in this general order of cost to maintain/repair, from most expensive to least: 2001 BMW Z3 3.0i, 1966 Ford Mustang, 1978 280Z, 1992 Saturn SL-2, 1994 Mazda Miata. Of these, the BMW is far and away the most expensive, and the other 4 sort of cluster together, such that it's hard for me to rank them.

Restoration is another matter. If I were heavy into restoration and cared, for instance, to have a properly chromed bezel around each tail light, then SOME parts could get rather pricey. However, parts for day-to-day repairs are pretty reasonable.

The issue that sometimes arises on these cars is that a part is no longer available. Then you have a choice between a salvage yard part and the retrofitting of a different part. Neither of these is a particularly costly choice. The former will solve the problem for a while, without much time or creativity required on your part. The more permanent (and usually better) solutions require a bit more time and fiddling.

The Z is a well enough supported car that there's a retrofit fix for just about any issue you might have, and there are also many cottage industries set up to help you along. Let's say your headlight / turn signal switch goes out, for instance. You can do any of the following:

• Fix the mechanism yourself, using information provided online.
  
• Pay someone else to fix it. On this list, Dave (Z's Ondabrain) used to do this and perhaps still does.
  
• Buy a used, working part
  
• In addition to the above, install electronic flashers and LED lights to take electrical load off your switch.
  
• In addition, install headlight relays to protect the switches further.
  
• Long into the future, if all our switch assemblies have crumbled to dust, print a replacement with a 3-D printer, mold yourself new parts, adapt something else, or whatever.
  

Keeping these cars on the road is not difficult at all. Restoring them to completely OEM, show-room condition can be a bit more challenging, but it's still possible. And finally, as classic cars go, the Z is still one of the more affordable.

[Hardway]

I will say something that I and many others have said before, buy the very best car you can afford. I see you are in Norway so getting parts and things shipped to you will cost more for any work you are doing so if you can, buy a car that does not need a lot to begin with. In today's market $8K - $10K buys a very nice 240z with a lot if not all the issues already addressed that you listed above. You have to ask yourself what you really want. A $5K project car that may need some time and money invested before you can drive and enjoy it or spend $9K on a car that needs one or two small items and you can start enjoying from day 1. Either way, keep us posted on what you find and consider buying. There are lots of very knowledgeable members on here.

[Sean240Z]

Audun - Welcome to the site! I concur with Hardway: Buy the best, most rust free car you can afford. Replacing parts is relatively easy compared to major rust repairs and metal work.

[moelk]

Welcome.

Cost on reapairs aint easy to set a numbers on.

As said above buy the best car you can, and if you are going to buy it from the US try to load it with as much parts you can ( just make sure its ok with the shippingcompany) that way you dont have to pay tax. I bought my car from Chico outside Sacramento. I put 2 extra seats in, struts/springs, brakes, new wheels and some other stuff. The price on parts in the Us are low if you compare to here in Sweden were i live. Heavy parts will cost alot to shipp tough. There are parts to find here in Europe to, you just have to know were to look or how to ask ; )

Good luck

[FastWoman]

As much as I love the Z, part of its appeal to me is that it is an economical car to own and maintain. I think if I were a European, I might want to take on a car with parts and support a bit closer at hand. There are quite a few very noteworthy European sports cars that would catch my eye. Heck, the Jaguar E-type makes me a bit weak in the knees, but it's a very expensive car (to buy, to restore, to maintain) here in the US. Most Z owners want their cars to become valuable, but I want quite the opposite. I want them to be available, cheap, and fun. (FAIW, a first-gen Mazda Miata MX-5 is right up there on my list of cheap and fun.)

[AMelbye]

First I have to say I'm really overwhelmed by the amount of response I've got in such short time! Thanks! You're awesome!

jfa.series1:

Thanks for your detailed list. This is very useful, even though I don't plan to do a full-on restauration job like you have, I'll definitely find use for this!

FastWoman: The current market for the 240z in Norway is close to non-existent. I've seen one for sale in the last year, but it can take another year or more before the next one shows up. I'll have to import, and the US seems to be the best place I've considered a few other cars, but the 240z simply stands out to me. It's probably the best looking car I know of, the L-series engine sounds great, it's simple to repair, it's pretty affortable, and compared to other cars of it's time it's said to be reliable. If it's reasonably cheap to maintain as well, that would only add to my list. The main down side is having to keep it garaged all winter so it won't rust. The e-type is beautiful, but it costs a fortune. The jaguar xjs is affordable, but very thirsty and probably much less fun to drive than the z. The mx5 is a good option, and I'm still keeping it in mind. The Z looks so much better though!

Hardway: Like you suggest, I'll be looking for a car in the best condition possible, within my budget. My budget is defined by what I can justify spending on a weekend car. If buying a $10.000 car will come out cheaper than a $6.000 car in a 5 year perspective, then that's what I will do.

moelk:

Thanks for your input! I'll definitely try to load the car up with parts, however, what parts I'll need depends on the car I get, so I guess won't know until I've found the car...

When you bought your Z, did you have your car inspected by a 3rd party, did you go there yourself, or did you just trust the seller?

[FastWoman]

I admit if you have a thing for the lines of the Z, the Z is probably the most affordable and accessible example of that sort of styling. I completely understand, and it's really THE most important personal reason I own one. It's simply a gorgeous machine.

Not that it's quite as sexy, but it's very, very cool... The Volvo P1800. It's a bit closer to your neck of the woods. Just a thought.

[moelk]

I have a friend how lives there check the car. He then bought it for me and took it to his garage. I then bought the parts i needed and had them shipped to him.

I think it would be easier for you to buy a car from France or Holland if you dont have someone you trust over there. I know i person in France that deals with these cars (interested? Send me a pm and i give you his mail/number).

We had three 240z sold in Sweden this year that i know of.

[Oiluj]

All the advice in the posts above is good. Find a Z with minimal rust. These cars had virtually no rust-proofing, so a small amount of visible rust is usually hiding a bigger problem...While some parts can be hard to find, they are still less expensive than extensive body repairs.

240Z's are generally quite reliable and easy to maintain, and can function as a daily driver if you don't mind the lack of modern technology. The 280Z with fuel injection is a bit more complex, but still not difficult to maintain.

I concur with FastWoman regarding the Volvo P1800 being a good alternative. In fact, it's one of my favorite cars. While not be as powerful as the Z, it's got great lines, it's easy to work on and there are some after market parts available. Based on sales prices I've seen, the P1800 appears to be appreciating at a slightly faster rate than a 240Z, at least here on the west coast.

Either way, buy the best car you can and enjoy driving it.

[AMelbye]

Fastwoman: I wish I had a thing for the P1800, volvo parts are probably much easier to source in my area. It's a gorgeous car, but not for me.

Back to the Miata: I did a quick search, and the mx5 is suprisingly cheap over here. About half the price of a Z in the same condition. Very cheap, and lots of fun/$. But, even though the Z is twice as expensive, the Z also has its advantages: Being 30 years+ means cheap insurance. the miata will cost at least $1000 pr year to insure (sports cars are expensive to insure over here), whilst the Z will cost less than $200 pr year, as it's a veteran. Road tax for the mx5 is $475 pr year, $75 pr year for the Z.

I think in a 5 years perspective these costs will have pretty much made up for the price difference. If you then start looking at the aestethics, the Z wins easily. As for driveability and fun, I have no clue which is better, as I haven't had a chance to try them.

moelk

thanks for the offer, I'll check out some ads from holland and france and let you know I do however suspect that those markets are more lurative for a swede. Norway not being part of the EU means 25% import tax regardless of which country I import from.

I'm currently in contact with a Norwegian import agency specializing in importing cars from the US. They have about 20 agents spread across the country. They charge 7500NOK for handling everything, including inspection of the car, haggling for a lower price, taking the car in for repairs or upgrades then shipping it to Norway (shipping cost is on top). For that price though, I think I could just fly over and sort it out myself. I'm really not sure how to go about this...