Clutch Issues

[yakhopper]

Need a few words of wisdom from the pros.

I replaced the clutch, pressure plate and bearing along with the master, slave, hose, and hard line. All parts were purchased from O'Reiley.

Now I can't get enough peddel movement to release the clutch (bled well, and firm peddel). I did notice that the master had a shorter pushrod than the original, but didn't think much as the original had more thread than I needed. Should I look to replace the master, or ?

any input would be greatly appreciated.

Eric / Yakhopper

[beermanpete]

Check the free play in the clutch pedal at the master. The shorter pushrod could be creating too much free play and wasting pedal stroke on taking up the free play instead of moving the clutch. Also, the throwout bearing collar is a common source of problems. If the new pressure plate is a different height than the old one you could have a problem there.

[yakhopper]

I adjusted the pushrod on the master to the max extension, but wonder if it wasn't designed to move far enough, thus creating the above issue. Pressure plate appeared the same, though I didn't actually measure it.

[beermanpete]

For the moment you cannot do anything about the TO bearing collar. Meaure the pedal free play to make sure it is correct. The factory service manual has a procedure for this. Follow it precisely and completely. IF you don't have the manual you can get it here: http://www.xenons30.com/reference.html

Edited March 18, 2015 by beermanpete

[Mark Maras]

Sometimes the free play can be difficult to detect. If you disconnect the pedal & slave cylinder springs, the free play becomes quite obvious.

[EuroDat]

Your model should have the clutch fork with the adjustable slave cylinder push rod. Make sure that is adusted with the correct free travel.

The push rod in the master cylinder could also be reducing your effective travel. What you mentioned about the different length is a common problem with the aftermarket units. This master cylinder was used on other models along with the S30, but some other models need a shorter push rod. The manufacturer simply makes the short one and subsitutes it for the S30 as well. You should be able to swap the push rods. I did that to mine and it work with no problems.

I have a sketch somewhere with the figures for the distance between clutch fork and slave cylinder. That way you can confirm it has the right throw out bearing collar.

Note: To insure long life its advisable to dismantle the two cylinders and clean them before using them. Mine had machining material and some cutting fluid for when they were made. The pieces of metal filings get in the ports and cut the rubber cups to pieces and the piston can pick it up and damage the bore.

Chas

[siteunseen]

Have you adjusted the threaded rod at the top of the pedal?  When I bought mine the clutch was worn and I adjusted that to get more pedal.  Maybe yours has been done too and now with the new clutch it needs readjusting?  I also ran the rod out on the slave cylinder.

[yakhopper]

So I have adjusted the rod on the master to the max, and the slave is also at max adj. 

I believe this is the problem that Eurodat is describing, after market has too short adj shaft and not enough movement for the clutch to work properly. Unfortunately after replacing the master and slave, in a hurry to clean the garage on garbage day, i accidentally tossed the original master :0( 

I am ordering another master and hoping for the best.

[Zed Head]

Here's the way I adjusted the rod in my car.  It's not the factory way, but I think it works, just based on simple principles.  I took out the clevis pin that connects the pedal to the rod end.  (Tense change here).  Let the pedal rest on its upper stop.  Adjust it to the factory number if you like or to where it feels comfortable.  Then turn the rod end (yoke, I guess it would be called), until the holes are lined up.  Tighten the lock nut.  Then slip the pin back in (it's easy now), and it's cotter pin.  There's enough play in the hole and the pin that everything is about where it needs to be and you get maximum travel from the pedal stroke.

 

The main reason I do it this way is because it makes the clevis pin easy to insert.  There's no room up there.  Here's another trick - run a thread through the clevis pin hole, then run the thread end through the pedal and yoke holes.  Use the thread to pull the pin up and to the holes.  Then you can hold it up with the thread while you do the final maneuvering with your finger tips.

 

 

Forgot to say, re your problem, if you can't get the holes to line up, with the pedal on its upper stop, then the rod is too short.  I think that my adjustment is way out at the very end of the rod.  It's barely long enough.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Zed Head

[yakhopper]

Anybody know where I can get a FSM for a 71 240, 

The link supplied by Beermanpete doesn't show the 71 

Ordered both master and slave, but wanted to double check the correct adjustment procedure. 

Also, 

I was able to attach the clevis pin at the peddle, but it is at the max adj.

also, the threaded pin on the slave is also extended to the max.  

I still have several inches of free play, and the system wont push enough to free the clutch for a proper shift. I'm getting about 1/2 - 3/4 inch of movement at the slave. I have bench bled the master several times, and the whole system at least 3 times ..... No air in system.

 

Thanks again for the help.

[anthony_c]

two years ago i encountered the exact same condition after replacing the clutch and slave on my 260.

the master cyl was working fine and not leaking, so no changes there.

i swapped out the new slave twice more. but no matter which vendor i ordered from they were all identical and produced the same effect. not enough travel.

 

the clutch was removed and we verified all of the internal parts were the correct dimension, so there were no internal geometry problems with the clutch.

at the suggestion of my mechanic and another member of this site the automatic slave and fork were replaced with a manually adjusting setup from a 240.

problem solved.

 

the original slave had been discarded so we couldn't say for certain, but i have strong suspicions that the replacement pushrod was too short.

[Patcon]

Its a little late now but I never get rid of old parts until I am sure the new parts fixed it. Even if they lay around for a couple of weeks. Sounds like you may need to scrounge up or fabricate a longer rod...

Charles