Oldest Automatic on the road?

[SledZ]

Hi All, I purchased a one owner, very nice 1971 with an automatic with a VIN number of 8996. According to ZHome documents, the first Auto was VIN 8944. That leaves 52 cars between that one and mine. What are the chances that I have the oldest Automatic 240? If so, would it be more valuable left as an Auto?

Unfortunately it does not have the original engine in it. I don't want to swap a 4 or 5 speed in it because half the reason I bought it was so my daughter and wife would drive it, the other half was because it is so straight and unmolested.

 

[cbuczesk]

I suppose that there's a chance that yours is the oldest AT made. But there's a better chance that yours is the oldest AT still alive. Based on what I've seen happen in the Mopar world I'd say it's more valuable kept as an AT. Post some pictures when you get a chance.

Chuck

 

[26th-Z]

SledZ,

In order to possess or keep the secret Datsun Z handshake you must be able to convey a proper VIN when discussing the Marque's.  Are you discussing an HLS30, an S30, an S30S, an HS30 or what?  Automatic transmissions were produced and available from the very beginning of production so your 1971 model year production is pretty far down the line.  The information on Zhome is probably exclusive to HLS30s which were not exported with an automatic transmission until later, however there are all those other "VINs" out there with automatic transmissions well before the production of your car.

[djwarner]

We had quite a discussion about surviving Series I ATs a while back.  Try searching

• Series 1 '71 blue on blue automatic - purist debate

• Quote

   

  Series 1 '71 blue on blue automatic - purist debate

From that conversation I would say you definitely have a very early one. I estimate there are no more than 50 series I ATs still on the road as ATs. Many were later converted to MTs.

ATs were not available  at the initial introduction. Up to 1970 all Datsun ATs were Borg Warner units. I bought one of the first JATCO equipped 510s brought into the US. AT 240Zs were not available til later in 1970. All 240Z ATs were JATCOs, made in Japan under license from Borg Warner.

Edited May 24, 2016 by djwarner

[HS30-H]

5 hours ago, djwarner said:

ATs were not available  at the initial introduction. Up to 1970 all Datsun ATs were Borg Warner units. I bought one of the first JACO equipped 510s brought into the US. AT 240Zs were not available til later in 1970. All 240Z ATs were JACOs, made in Japan under license from Borg Warner.

As 26th-Z pointed out, the subject of Automatic Transmission-equipped S30-series Zs - when framed by terms such as "earliest" and "oldest on the road" - has to take into account that Auto-equipped Zs were available in Japan much earlier than they were in north America.

Having said that, at least one of the 'Kaku U' north American test/dealer publicity run cars from 1969 was Auto trans equipped. Not a true production car, but it did have a chassis number.

The 3N71A transmission was made by JATCO (Japan Automatic Transmission Company), a joint enterprise by several companies under the BW patents..

[djwarner]

HS30-H,

Thank you for correcting the MFG, the 3N71A was a JATCO. I have edited my post.

Being able to avoid the Borg Warner AT was a major issue when I bought the '70 510 wagon as the BWs did not have a very good reputation in lower powered compact cars. Unfortunately, in my case the 3N71A ate the housing extension rear bearing and rear seal with 11,993 miles on the clock. Being 2500 miles from the selling dealer at the time didn't help. Dealers had no spare parts and would sell me AT fluid and tell me to try to get home. After a 1000 miles in Dallas, the transmission demanded I stop. I hoped that since Datsun had a major parts facility in Houston, I would be back on the road soon. A week later the Area Rep for Datsun had the dealer pull parts off of their demo car to get me back on the road.

Knowing the rarity of the 3N71A back then, I wonder if the '69 publicity car may have had a BW transmission. 

Edited May 24, 2016 by djwarner

[HS30-H]

2 hours ago, djwarner said:

Knowing the rarity of the 3N71A back then, I wonder if the '69 publicity car may have had a BW transmission. 

I think it would certainly have been the JATCO 3N71A, as this was already being fitted and sold in the Japanese market in C10-series Skylines and other models by the end of 1968/early 1969. By the time of the 'Kaku U' north American tour it would have been a bit late (and fairly pointless) for them to have anything other than the 3N71A in one of the cars.

Good story regarding your auto-equipped 510. Must have been a pretty big leap of faith in those days to buy such a car with the great distances between proper servicing dealers. I hope your loyalty was rewarded!

[djwarner]

Actually the '70 510 AT Wagon was my second 510. I traded in a '68 coupe for the wagon. At the time I was stationed on the east coast at Dover AFB Del and was temporarily assigned to the Edwards AFB CA. After getting there, I rented a home right outside the base and had a 26 mile commute to work. Between the long daily commute, weekends in Las Vegas and the cross country relocation, I put the 11,000+ miles on in only a few months. I was on my way back to Dover transiting Arizona when the transmission ate itself. Since the JATCO transmission had only been sold in the US for a few months, Datsun had no spare parts.

The Dallas Datsun Sales Manager was all kinds of angry when he had to take his only AT equipped Wagon off the floor to cannibalize parts.

Datsun dealerships of the time were somewhat spotty, especially out of the major markets. The dealership in Winslow AZ where I had my problems turned out to be the John Deere Farm Implements dealer. The head (read only) mechanic was the owner's son. He confessed that he had never seen any car with an automatic transmission. He was kind enough to write a letter verifying that the failure had occurred while the car was in warranty.  

[SledZ]

Sorry I did mention it was a 204Z but the VIN is HLS30-08996 August of 1970 Build date. So almost could be a 1970. I'll go with the "oldest Auto on the road in the US" if I ever sell it and dare someone to prove it isn't!

Speaking of 510's here is my family's window sticker for our 510 wagon. It was a 1971 purchased June 30, 1971. Car I learned to drive with and would get another if I had a chance but would have to be orange!

 

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by SledZ

[rossiz]

wow - are they missing a 0 on the pricing??